Finding the Flow: Hip Hop Pedagogy and Transformative Student Engagement
Professor Kisha Daniels and Duke undergraduate student Selena Collins’ collaborative service-learning course, Critical Pedagogy of Hip Hop, connects Duke students and Durham Public School middle and high schoolers.
Working in partnership with public school educators, Duke students create engaging learning environments that celebrate language, critical thinking and social justice through hip hop music. Rooted in relationship-building and student empowerment, the course work confirms how community-based, collaborative learning can strengthen student engagement and inspire the next generation.
"This was such an impactful experience for the students. Everyone involved learned something, including what goes into creating a hip hop song. My students will remember this for the rest of their lives."
- Dorian Burton, English Teacher, Jordan High School, Durham Public Schools
Full Transcript
Welcome to season two of Duets, a Duke Trinity podcast that explores research collaborations between faculty, students and community partners across Durham and North Carolina.
Today we’re joined by Professor Kisha Daniels and Duke undergraduate student Selena Collins, whose collaborative service-learning course, Critical Pedagogy of Hip Hop, connects Duke students and Durham Public School middle and high schoolers. Working in partnership with public school educators, Duke students create engaging learning environments that celebrate language, critical thinking and social justice through hip hop music. Rooted in relationship-building and student empowerment, the course work confirms how community-based, collaborative learning can strengthen student engagement and inspire the next generation.
Kisha: I'm Kisha Daniels, I'm an assistant professor of the practice in the Program in Education, and I'm also the Director of the Secondary Teacher Preparation Program.
Selena: Hi, I'm Selena Collins. I'm a History major, also an Education minor. Just finished the Secondary Teacher Prep program, also getting my Certificate in Documentary Studies.
Kisha: So, Selena, how did we meet?
Selena: Amy Anderson, she was my professor for Education 101, and she was like, "oh, have you met Kisha?” And I was like, no, but, like a lot of my friends, like, have had classes with her, like — you come up a lot. You know that.
Kisha: Yes.
Selena: So, I was like, “yeah, I'm kind of aware of her.” And then she just called you over. We hit it off, and it was like, “let's go to breakfast!” And like, our breakfast was, like, three hours. It was crazy, like, we just talked about, like we just talked about everything — that's my recollection. Like, we just clicked.
Kisha: That still goes down as one of the best brunches that I've ever had. We hit it off, and I just thought to myself: Yyes, I want to work with you more and have more of those moments.”
Selena: I feel like I've seen you like, all the time.
Kisha: Yes, yes.
Selena: Like ever since, like, every week.
Kisha: All the time.
Selena: Multiple days.
Kisha: Yes.
Selena: So, can you maybe let me know, like, what you think a common misconception is when it comes to Education?
Kisha: I think one misconception is that the field is only teaching. That's a huge one. Education honestly ripples through everything that you do, which is one of the questions that I always ask students to think about and reflect on with every single assignment — whether they're reading something theoretical, academic, or practical in nature — is: “how will you use this information in your chosen career?” Because we know that students at Duke can do many different things, and they do many different things. But I want you to think about how this learning in the field of education transcends either, who you are as a person, how you think about yourself as a learner, and what will you do with it? What I notice in a lot of the assignments is students will say, "Well, I want to be a doctor, and this will show me how to better communicate with people.” Or they'll say, "I want to be an engineer, and now, because of this class, I now have a better understanding of why collaboration is really important.”
Selena: So, how is collaboration important for our work?
Kisha: I'm always looking for ways to collaborate, because I feel like, for me personally, it feeds my soul. I love coming up with an idea and saying, "Hum. I know Selena is going to bring something different to this idea.” And you never fail. Our collaboration is so vastly important to the work, not just how we go about executing our research, but also how I hope you take away new learnings, new understandings.
Selena: The difference between, like, us working together last year and this year is incredibly different. Last year, like for me was like, “I'm just going to sit back and, like, take in the way that she works.” This year, like, I felt a lot more confident and, like, comfortable I guess, like, in my own like expertise. But also in that, I don't want to forget the fact that, like, you brought me along, and like it is your vision, and I'm trying to help craft your vision as well. Like for me, growing as a person and professionally, really finding where I'm at in the space, in the field.
Kisha: Research can be many things, and what I've learned is really helping students to understand the value that they bring to research. Like, you have different strengths...
Selena: Yeah.
Kisha: That I don't have.
Selena: Yeah, I think we definitely have a great yin and yang. Like…
Kisha: Yes.
Selena: You have great big ideas. And then I'm like, “so, um, how are we going to do that?” You're so positive about stuff. And I think with you, I've really learned, like, you can be that optimistic. This project has gone up exponentially in two years because, like, you have radical thoughts that you really, truly bring to life, and that's something I'm also like, I'm really taking away, like, having that radical belief in yourself, even when it doesn't feel possible.
Selena: What are some of the unique challenges of doing this community-engaged work?
Kisha: Service-learning and community-engaged research has been just a part of my life once I started really thinking differently about how I wanted to engage with my students and the community. And so, now it's not challenges that I see, but it's more: "hmm, oh, this is kind of in my way, I just got to push it, like, off to the side, right?” Or, “it's really not going to slow me down, I just have to go kind of, like, around it and maneuver.”
Selena: No, actually, I know exactly what you're saying, because there's times that you do that, and then I'm like, “What? Like, she's acting like, this isn't a thing.”
Kisha: Right.
Selena: But, like, it ends up not being a thing.
Kisha: Right.
Selena: So, like, yeah. I actually get that.
Kisha: Really, in my heart of hearts, I believe that when you are doing the work for the right reasons...
Selena: The doors open.
Kisha: The keys come and the doors open. Yeah. We are engaging in this semester, this research to make learning better for students — not just Duke students, but the students at Jordan High School, right? K-12 students — how could anyone say no?
Selena: Yeah. Can you share a time when your research made you feel hopeful?
Kisha: Well, you know, I'm always hopeful, like I'm always just pretty excited about everything. But I just read my course evaluations. I go straight to the comments, and one of the students said that the course reminded them of everything that was good about learning. And sifting through some of that data makes me feel hopeful that I am curating learning experiences for students in ways that matter, and that's really all I ever, ever wanted to do.
Selena: Observing your teaching in their Critical Pedagogy of Hip Hop class, you really have mastered fully immersing students in like Durham and Education. You've taken that part of school out that we all don't like, that part where you're like, you're so stressed. It's like a breath of fresh air. It's kind of like what the middle schoolers said when they reflected on, like, the very first semester together: “Oh, I love when you guys come on Fridays because we don't do any work.”
Kisha: Yeah.
Selena: But, like, if you look through it, like, all they did was work with us.
Kisha: Right.
Selena: All they were doing was working on their vocab words, working on their writing. All it is is work, and like, learning new skills, but it's done in such a way — I don't know if you can even put the words, like, exactly like what that thing is — but it's something about it. It doesn't feel like school. It's just good vibes. It's just community, like it's just being in community.
Kisha: So what about you? When was a time that you also felt super hopeful?
Selena: The impact of the class, like I became really hopeful in, like, what education can be and what that experience can be on all levels, because at Neil Middle School, the students, the part they liked the most wasn't even, like, making a song, it was just us being there. And, like, this parts that we thought, I guess, would have been, like, boring thing, that was their favorite. They enjoyed learning, like, this is a history of music, and like, how we can see that today. And like, these are the themes you can take from the 1950s or 1970s, or even going even further, about 1800s in music. And like, that was what they loved. So, I think I'm also really hopeful, like, you can find those different ways to just genuinely engage students and, like, make them love school. So many times they were talking about, like, they didn't use to like to come to school on Fridays, and now they looked forward to come to school on Friday — like, that gave me a lot of hope. I think also, what's crazy about it is me and you, like, we don't even do music.
Kisha: People will ask me all the time: "So, you're teaching the Critical Pedagogy of Hip Hop, is that your research?”
Selena: No?
Kisha: And I was like, “no, not at all.” But I saw an in, I saw a way to connect what I love — which is education, theories of education, theories of teaching and learning –– to what students like.
Selena: Exactly.
Kisha: And once I figured that secret sauce, I was like, okay, we can, we can figure this out, this will work. Something else that you also said reminded me of a student that came up to me when we were doing the mobile recording session and — tying in kind of this idea of hopefulness — he shared with me that he came to the country in middle school with his family, and how he hated school.
Selena: Yeah.
Kisha: But that, this experience, he was engaged more, he really loved the learning, he loved being able to write. And Mr. Burton also mentioned, he said, I have not heard this student speak this much, and it was so impactful that we winded up adding a part to the song in his native language that really, if you ask me ––
Selena: Tied it together.
Kisha: It totally tied the entire the entire song together. We did write a song.
Selena: We did.
Kisha: Duke students and Jordan High School students collaborated to write a song about how they can find beauty within the mundane things around them, and...
Selena: We're claiming all that glory.
Kisha: We are we are and, yeah, just take a listen. It's amazing. It's pretty amazing.
If you'd like to learn more about our course and our research, please take a look at my Duke Scholars page. Also, we've been putting together a few articles that are forthcoming, so look out for that.
Selena: I'm doing a thesis that's very connected to our work, thinking about the American Revolution and enslaved people, and how we can also infuse critical pedagogy of hip hop into that, so, creating a curriculum around that.
The music for this podcast was created in collaboration with students at Jordan High School and Duke University, and the beat was created by Duke alum André Mego, class of 2020.
Duets is produced by Trinity College of Arts and Sciences at Duke University.
Senior Editor and Producer: Cara August, Trinity Communications
Audio Editor and Mixer: Marc Maximov
Music Composition: André Mego, T’20 | MMS ‘21
Production Sponsor: Trinity College of Arts & Sciences, Duke University
Recording Date and Location: May 2025, Bryan Center Studios
